Climate Adaptation with Louie Woodall, Founder @ Climate Proof

Today on the show we have Louie Woodall. Louie is the founder of Climate Proof. Climate Proof is a publication that pushes forward the conversation about climate adaptation. What is climate adaptation? Well, that's exactly what we talk about on the episode as well as more theoretically what place media has uh in the ecosystem of climate tech

along with founders, funders, um policy makers, academics, uh those that typically get more attention, the media outlets, uh and also what role language plays in u pushing forward change. Please do not forget to subscribe not only to this channel, turn on your notifications so you know when these episodes drop, but also to the

newsletter where I will go deeper into the topics explored in this conversation. And thank you to our partners, Clean Techch Growth Lab. If you want to grow in clean tech, those are the experts. If you want to grow in any other industry, it's Craz Friends, the producer of this podcast. And now for Louie.

Louie, welcome. Hi Blake. Great to be here. Thanks for the invite. I am so glad that you're here. I've been after Louie. And Louie is a very busy man doing very interesting things. Uh and so finally uh accepted the introduction. So with uh for all the people that don't know yet uh if you

give a brief introduction of yourself and uh what you're building. Yes. Thank you, Blake. So, I run the publication climate proof and that is all about climate adaptation, which is how businesses, governments, individuals, communities are building protection against climate impacts, preparing for ever worsening extreme weather disasters, getting ready for how the environmental system, the

hydraological system, the climactic system are going to change because of the increase of global uh the increase of fossil fuel uh usage and greenhouse gases in the in the environment. So it's a newsletter, it's a podcast, I also have a number of data products and the focus is really on how this adaptation

imperative is going to drive economic change and social change over the next 10, 20, 50 years. So burning question that I circled put you know like fireworks around and stuff like that. um you were very adamant about the fact that you focus on adaptation versus any other angle that you could in the climate space. Why is

that the case? So I think well look if global warming is the inconvenient truth right which Al Gore spoke about years ago then climate adaptation is kind of the kind of unavoidable reality we're in right now but it seems to be a reality we are choosing not to look at directly. So there's a lot of focus in climate media

in climate policy on mitigation right so this is reducing fossil fuel usage turning to renewables etc and that's really really important but the sad truth is is that even if we cut out all fossil fuel usage today the amount of warming gases in the atmosphere today are going to create impacts that will

continue for the next 10 20 years right we are going to see as we have seen this year increase in extreme weather disasters or extreme weather related disasters like the LA wildfires like hurricane Helen, like the massive floods in Europe and Pakistan and typhoons in Southeast Asia. Those are going to continue. We're also going to see

temperatures continue to rise. They're already around the 1.5 degree level and and they're going to rise more and that is going to bring a whole new degree of stresses to the way we live our lives and businesses uh to how we actually allocate capital around the world. So, it's unavoidable that we're going to

have to adapt to the climate. But, it seems to me, and I wonder if your listeners would agree, that we're still very much focused on if we just cut emissions, everything's going to be fine. We can get back to uh living our lives as as we wanted to back in the '9s or the 80s, whatever it was. Uh, and

sadly, that's not true, and that's not the reality we're in. So, I wanted to focus solely on adaptation because I think it is overlooked and we need to get to grips with the technologies, the policies, and the processes and the kind of uncomfortable changes we're going to have to make in order to survive and

thrive over the next 50, 100 years. So, I have a uh a related question that's also circled in fireworks here. Before we get to that one, uh I'm curious if you uh as a child, you know, you woke up every day and said, "I cannot wait to be a journalist, a content, you know, producer. I can't

wait to write." How did you get into uh doing this? I've always loved to write. Yes. I was one of those kids at school who I enjoyed doing the long essays, right? instead of doing the the artworks and and doing the the practical stuff uh or the sports class, I'd like to my my

written English classes, my history classes. So, I very much enjoyed that. And at university, I was part of the school paper, which was a real eye opening experience. It was great fun talking to smart people, getting them interested in you, you being interested in them, and yes, kind of distilling complex information for

for different audiences. is. And I suppose I also love the writing side of it. I don't think I've ever been brilliant on the on the on the reporting side. I think real good reporters have to be really annoying and keep keep hammering away at contacts and go to all the parties. And I did that for a while.

But I think what I really love is getting complex information and writing about it in a way that's engaging that really conveys meaning to people who can actually make use of what I'm writing about. So yeah, I suppose it started in in school. I've always loved to write, always loved to read. And then doing

some journalism at university, University of London, that kind of made me think, oh, I could do this for sure. And yeah, it's it's gone on from there. Has has it always similarly, has it always been a dream of yours to um I guess either run your own business and or within this context, you know, run

your own publication like you are or is it something that just evolved over time? It's a good question. I feel like the time was right for me to go off on my own and do my own enterprise, right? Um, my experience has been career so far has been working at like a medium-sized

company, which is good. It was comfortable. Uh, all the modcons have been in a in a in a goodsized business that's making money. Uh, but it was a bit stifling after a certain amount of time, right? It was quite clear that the ladder was kind of going to be blocked at the top. Um, and then I went to work

for a startup. my first ever startup I worked at venture capital back startup and you know you kind of think there's going to be uh some some secret formula they're not aware of but then I realized through that experience that yeah everybody's kind of like uh making up as they go along right building the

building the aircraft as it's flying which is the old startup trope right and I thought right okay so there's no like magic formula there's no like secret source it is kind of having a good idea executing on it well finding that product market fit and and and going for it and putting the hard hard yards in.

So once I realized that working at the startup, I thought, okay, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna try and do this do do this myself. Um, and I do love the flexibility. I do love being my own boss. Uh, I don't love the insecurity and the ups and downs, but maybe I do because I you get you get

the adrenaline rush when things go well and you get the kind of need to be creative when things don't go so well. And uh, I think it's a it's a way to challenge yourself that sometimes you don't get in other environments. So high level could you walk through um just so you were uh working for uh a company for

a period of time how long that was and then you said you worked at a startup how long that was and then you know if how long have you been running your own yeah so out of college I started working for a businessto business financial media company called incisive media it was then and I worked for the com uh the

publication called risk.net net which is very focused on financial regulation, risk management at banks and asset managers. Really nerdy stuff, right? I think one of my colleagues called it the nerdy big brother of the Wall Street Journal. And it really was very very targeted a very kind of elite user base within the biggest banks of the world.

And it was it was tough stuff kind of getting to grips with this this content this this the complexity of that world, right? And this was, you know, a few years after the financial crisis, so there was a lot of change going on in that in that world. So it was really engaging, really interesting. But uh and

uh yeah, I was traditional. I went from reporter to staff writer to to an editor role. So that company really looked after me. Uh really helped me kind of understand how to be a journalist uh how to talk to contacts, how to put articles together, uh how to create a good story. And it's

to them that I have to thank for for where I am right now in New York because I started out in London, but this being a financial media publication, they obviously had offices in New York. I got to visit here first in 2014 and fell in love with New York and then I asked for

a transfer and they they enabled that. So I've been in New York now for 10 years and for about five of those years I stayed with that company with Incisive Media and then parted ways with them uh 2020 2021 amiably because I had this opportunity at a climate tech startup right and I've been very interested in

writing about climate change ever since like 2018 2019 and the true story is is that in 2019 I believe it was that was when Greta Funberg you know the great environmental activist climate activist she came to New York City and actually I'm I'm I'm right by uh the Hudson River here, right? Uh in Barry Park City and

she actually her boat came up here with a kind of like escorting fertilla of of boats and I saw her land. I got to see her speak and I thought, you know, this 16year-old or 15year-old she was back then, she's doing all this on climate and you know, I'm not going to suddenly,

you know, try to become a climate scientist or become an activist. But I did think I wanted to use my journalistic skills and my interests in in writing to kind of further the climate change agenda if you want to call it that. So that's when I started writing first of all about climate

change and how it impacted on financial institutions and financial markets. So that was my first kind of engagement with climate change writing and and through those writings that I did on the side of my desk. That's how I got to the attention of this climate tech startup.

And uh yeah, I I got snapped up by them and worked for them from 2021 to 2023. The company is called Manifest Climate. It's still around. It's a uh it's now an ESG data reporting and kind of analysis company, but back then it was more firmly firmly focused on climate and they were excited about building out an

editorial function within their platform. So that's why I was brought on board. So I was with them for about 3 years. is I worked from home from New York. They were based in Toronto in Canada and um I kind of got a taste then I suppose for remote work and being flexible and all that jazz and then yeah

um things came to an end there act manifest in 2023 and I thought right I'm going to instead of bump bouncing straight into another job I thought I'm going to do some consulting going to do some freelancing and see if I can make climate proof into a thing and here we are. So, so uh so, so two

things. One is, uh, specifically with your experience with climate proof, you just outlined and thank you for doing that. Um, the the timeline there. What, you know, you could say what are what is, uh, one or two of the most impactful things that you took from uh, either both or one of those experiences that

that impact how you navigate uh, climate proof. now. So I think from my experience at Incisive Media working for Ris.net, I had really good editors, right? So I I owe to to my editors Duncan and Chris and Rob and Michael a lot about how to put a complex story together in a in a

digestible format for an audience, right? So understanding how to put together a story, understanding what matters to audiences. I think that how to make the product essentially I got from them. Uh and I think the key thing being a journalist is always being curious and open and always being aware of other people's biases, right? And I

think sometimes it's easy to forget that and especially when you become more pi with certain contacts, it's easy to forget, but you got always remember like who's this where's this person coming from? Are they talking their own book?

What are their motivations for talking to you in the first place? kind of understanding why people talk to journalists and distilling that bias, understanding that bias. That's definitely one lesson I big lesson I got from working at risk.net from Manifest Climate. I think you know the old startup adage of moving fast, pivoting fast, you know, jumping on

things, taking extreme action very quickly. I think that is a skill I didn't have before because working at a mid-size company, things are a bit slower. there's there's committees, there's different layers. Whereas startup, it's much more seat of your pants and and things can turn on the dime, right? And I think I learned all

right, I'm going to try this business model, this revenues, try to build this revenue stream, do XYZ. Okay, that's not working brilliantly. So, I'm going to pivot or I'm going to adjust it. So, being not not being so afraid to like try things and drop them or try things and pivot them quite quickly, right?

Because I think sometimes you get stuck in the mindset like, okay, I'm going to be a subscription newsletter. Climate proof is going to be fully subscriptionbased. I'm going to get people to pay tens hundreds of dollars to read my stuff because I'm that damn good and I'm not going to need advertising. I'm not going to need

sponsored content. And then it's like, okay, that's that's not happening. So, let's try and do sponsored content. And that, you know, that has been something I' I'm new to, but I've built out and I feel it's working well for me, but it took some learning, took some tweaking on the side to kind of get a model

together. Um, but I think, yeah, not having the stubbornness to be like, okay, I'm going to carry on with this idea no matter what. Um, I think working at Manifest Climate, working at a climate tech startup kind of gave me an understanding about the importance of pivoting and not being afraid to to to

swerve when things don't go your way. Well, so so some something that was interesting about uh something I think uh me and definitely a lot of people are less familiar with uh is that concept of keeping the bias in mind. And so and so what what do you what do you mean by

like how is it that how is it that that impacts uh the content that you ultimately create? Is it is it the fact that when you interview people and you receive answers to the questions you have to take it through filter when you're before you release it, you know, how does that manifest in your workflow?

Yeah, you have to filter it. I mean what's really exciting about climate adaptation, it's it's kind of a new theme, right? It's still not very well understood and there's lots of efforts by different parties, philanthropies, uh, venture capital firms, corporates to kind of shape what adaptation means and for their own purposes, right? Some

investors want adaptation to be an investable theme uh that they can like create investment products off the back of exchange traded funds, all that sort of jazz. some VCs they're obviously trying to attract uh you know funds from LPs from family offices and so they're trying to say that adaptation is one thing uh philanthropies are saying

adaptation is another thing so you kind of have to understand like what what are the motivations for this person for promoting this particular idea of climate adaptation right so you have to kind of be like okay and when I write sometimes you you always have to say so and so is a VC investor who focuses on

this thing you know you can't just say this guy is expert in adaptation. You can't put that out there. You have to put the context around it and then people at least then know where um these views are coming from. And yes, trying to provide you the question of balance is always important

journalism. And I think everything's blurring in that domain in this modern world, right? think about all the the substacks and the kind of either ideologically or I don't know um sort of like I don't say bias but like tilted publications out there talking about important concepts and look I'm yeah you know I'll write

about climate change I believe in climate change obviously I don't have any time for climate denialists I actually do believe we should be promoting climate adaptation we need adaptation news and insights to be more widely circulated so we are prepared for for climate CL shocks for for worsening climate disasters. So I I have a you

know that's my bias I suppose and I I don't hide that. Um but yeah when dealing with when writing an article or trying to provide some news you got to you got to always remember like what is this person selling? What has this person wanted to get out of me and what what do they want to get out of my

audience? Yeah. Yeah. So I so something interesting and we'll just go right into it because I had it anyway is that uh I think the way that you speak about climate adaptation is similar to you you know what you could say about I mean sustainability today but it's definitely the concept or the word of

sustainability I don't know 10 years ago 5 years ago even where it was this thing where people wanted to bring into uh it was kind of a newer term and it was popping up in different places and people were using it different ways and like you're saying shaping the narrative of sustainability to serve whatever

their their priorities were. So could you go in a little bit more in detail about what you know the state of adaptation or from your perspective or where it's at, how people are using it, what the uh the useful ways to think about it and the useful ways to use it are versus ways that are not so useful

or misinformed. Well, the big debate I've been having this year is we have climate adaptation and we have climate resilience and are they the same thing? You might have heard those terms put together, adaptation and resilience, A and R. And I actually ran a survey of my readers this year to kind of ask about what is

adaptation. What is resilience? Right? So that we can try and come up with a common definition. And we came up with the um idea that adaptation are the actions you take to adjust systems or processes to deal with a changing climate. Resilience, climate resilience is the kind of the state of being, right? You are a resilient individual.

If you are, you know, healthy, if you got a good diet, if you, you know, if you've got some savings in your bank account, that makes you resilient to shocks that could happen to you, right? Healthwise, physical, uh, financial, you lose your job, you've got your savings, that makes you resilient. That's a

state, right? Similarly, like a building is climate resilient if a number of climate adaptation actions have been taken to make it resilient to to worsening winds, to extreme heat, etc. So I think we've come to uh an agreement at least in my community and it seems like it's getting into the wider climate

community as well that adaptation are kind of actions the stepby-step things you have to do and resilience is the end goal we're striving for right so if you're climate resilient in a two-digree world that's great but then you have to take more actions to become resilient in a three-digree world right it's a never-

ending process so I think that's the first thing I'd say is that we seem to be arriving at a common understanding of what adaptation is visav resilience and visav mitigation, right, which is just decarbonization, uh reducing fossil fuel usage, reducing uh greenhouse gases being popped into the atmosphere. But I would say we're

still a long way from having adaptation really embedded in business and finance, right, in the kind of climate advocacy, climate politics world. So think about COP 30 that just happened in Brazil. There was a lot of discussion of climate adaptation, right? especially because developing countries are the ones that are suffering the most from climate

shocks. Think about Hurricane Melissa devastating Jamaica this year. Think about the floods in Pakistan. Uh think about the typhoons hitting um Indonesia and the Philippines. So at the international climate diplomacy level, adaptation is a big deal, right? And there's a lot of discussions about how do we get funds from rich countries to

poorer countries to support adaptation. So there's a lot going on in that world. But if you look at the global north, especially in businesses, financial institutions, we're still not seeing adaptation taken up as much as sustainability was 10 years ago or even like net zero was 5 years ago, right?

Remember there was net zero alliances for every sector under the sun five or six years ago and we haven't had the same kind of upbringing of alliances and initiatives for adaptation. that maybe because a lot of those net zero lines etc you know fell upon hard times got caught up in political fights culture

wars and we don't want to make the same mistakes adaptation but I also think it's because adaptation is this kind of until recently a more woolly concept right uh like what do you mean by adaptation what do you mean by resilience and I think now we're getting to the point where look these are

actions you can take your business can take to become resilient to climate shocks we need to still create a market where you have people providing those solutions and and a clear kind of user case within corporations, businesses, governments, a clear a clear user who wants to buy those goods and services, right?

Yeah. No. Well, yeah, because because I I think it's it's a really interesting conversation to me the usage. I mean this happens in any space but obviously in the in the in the climate tech climate change you know whatever space there's a lot of terms um that people throw around to um and that that that

could be really useful but the misuse of those words um is you know for is is like sustainability like we're talking about it's uh they could be used to greenwash on on super um on levels of super big corporations because they're just trying to make a sale and uh you know they're able to do that But if if

sustainability was used uh correctly, it would help push agendas forward. And so in an in in an ideal state, um so okay, so I guess what I'm trying to say is that in an ideal state, this the word sustainability like the word the concept net zero, these things could could be really potent, but over time there's a

curve of them being adopted in and used in culture wars and things like this that dilute their effectiveness. And so adaptation, the way that you're framing it, the way that I understand it, seems to be at a point where it still has the potential to be something very positive and very uh very impactful and it also

has the potential to uh end up similarly to the sustainability you know net zero. So how is it that you see uh you know this concept of adaptation? Well, first of all, what is the end state that is ideal for a term for a concept like adaptation?

And how is it that we uh uh we increase the chances of it ending up there? Yeah, there's a tension, right? Because on the one hand, we want adaptation to be kind of incorporated as business as usual, right? So you are seeing this in some of the policy proposals coming out of the European Union, right? They want

to make adaptation to climate risks part of every decision they make, budgetary, infrastructure buildout, any regulation they write. They want adaptation to be interwoven with everything they're doing. And when you think about how every sector is going to be affected by climate change, agriculture, by drought, by increased pests because of migrating patterns changing because of increasing

heat. Then you think about how um you know residential real estate, commercial real estate is going to be affected by changing flood risk, right? Every sector has a different kind of intersection with climate risks and they're all going to have to come up with different solutions to to adapt and that means it

can't kind of been done top down. There needs to be solutions coming up from the bottom from each of these sectors. Right? So we do need adaptation to be embedded into business as usual. when you're making an investment decision, when you're deciding to contract a company or get a new supplier, you have

to always be thinking, okay, how is this uh partner, this supplier, this customer going to be affected by climate risk? That should be automatic, right? That's where we want to get to, I think. But on the other hand, because adaptation is still kind of woolly and misunderstood and I think a lot of people still think

climate adaptation, no, we talk about extreme weather risk or we talk about, oh yeah, acts of God, force major, like oh, you know, shucks, what we going to do about it? That mentality needs to change and that's why we still wanted to push adaptation as a concept. I feel we kind of need to get this word these

words into people's heads and we need to them on the slide decks that are shown to board CEOs and shown to politicians and shown to philanthropies who are raising funds for for climate finance reasons. We kind of need to like have this category of adaptation created so people can really kind of grapple with

it. But then we kind of need the solutions to be taken from the the sectors themselves from the bottom up and and brought brought brought upwards. So it's kind of a challenge there and and right now in the US it's really interesting and I'm sure you've seen this in other climate discussions, right? Language has changed a lot around

climate. So adaptation is sometimes a word that's used. Um modernization is just one like especially when in terms of the grid like how do we make sure that our electricity grid is resilient to wildfires to storms right oh we we need to do modernization or hardening right those are the words that I use

there right and then you have future proofing is sometimes a term you might have heard used right it's not we're not talking about climb we're talking about future proofing so the language is kind of evolving to kind of the kind of political constraints we're under here in the US And some people say, "Oh, I

don't care what language you use as long as long as we're taking actions." But then I'm like, "Okay, but then everyone's going to everyone's going to consider this challenge differently and there's not going to be the sharing of best practices that we had with sustainability like we had with net zero, which were actually quite helpful.

I think I think we can say what we want about, you know, collaborative alliances not really achieving much, but they created best practices and kind of structures that people could take and embed in their own organizations. But I kind of think we still need that with adaptation.

That is if I I appreciate you uh putting it that way because that was that that that makes a lot of sense. It's very concise. And so uh to the the question that I had uh that I alluded to before with uh a bunch of circles and fireworks, my question is there is

there's uh there's people that are building companies that are hard tech that are making the technologies. There are funders. Uh there's there's policy uh there's people making the regulation. But in this space when you're thinking about your contribution to climate change like you spoke to you're passionate about it what role you know

why does uh journalism why does media have a purpose in this ecosystem well it is media is a means of coordinating and communicating right and communicating adaptation which as we've we've discussed right is kind of a complex or ambiguous term I think communicating adaptation the need to adapt the importance of adapting uh is is so is is

essential uh in order to avoid losses human and financial in the next few years. So that communicating function is so important. And if it's if it's not done by media, independent media, then it's done by in institutions that might have their own biases or may take up adaptation because it's the hot thing for a few

minutes and then drop it again, you know? Or you'll have adaptation being defined by uh groups that may not have our society best interest and heart, right? And I can't help but think about uh you know organizations that were funded by fossil fuel entities who are involved in discussions on decarbonization and net zero 10 years

ago plus right who are still still active in many ways. So we don't want communication about adaptation to be uh captured by other interests especially because one one of the concerns about the adaptation conversation is that oh if you're talking about adaptation you're giving up on mitigation on reducing emissions and that's not the

case at all but there are those actors who would say oh yeah we can adapt to climate change we don't have to worry about cutting fossil fuels no we don't want that dynamic to take hold we don't want that message to be the one that's relayed so media communicating independently why adaptation is

essential what solutions are out there, what you should do about it, I think is is so important. And then the convening role is important as well because, you know, I've got a large number of subscribers. I I'm I go to a bunch of events on adaptation. It's still quite a small circle, at least in in the in the

conference circuit I'm on. Uh but we need to grow it. And I think having uh a network, building a network based on the media organization is is is a is a better way to to convene than other entities that again might have their own biases in place. So I feel media has a

very important role in communicating and convening actors together and also like compiling data like one thing I'm branching into is databases uh of of climate adaptation companies also kind of creating records of how companies are talking about climate risks uh in different in different in their own sectors. So yeah, providing like a compendium of references,

citations, and hopefully best practices going forward. Yeah, being a useful resource, I think is what media can do. Convene. Convene. Convene. That's a great word, isn't it? Convene. No, that's great. No, I love that. So, I have uh um uh two final question, two two of my favorite questions to ask people. And I love uh so far how we've

talked about the role of language, how we've talked about your experience with uh your uh your publication and your opinions about adaptation. I think this is all really cool. And so with uh with all that uh to uh with with all the work left to be done, what is the biggest hurdle at the moment that you'd say

you're facing? And how is it also an opportunity? So I'm facing or that adaptation that's facing you like with the with the publication or the uh or the the company or or however you want to take it. Well, I I don't think it's a surprise most companies is is the the biggest barrier is making enough money to carry

on, right? Don't run out of money. So yeah, building up my my revenue base, um diversifying some of the revenue streams, subscriptions, uh sponsorship, advertising, I need to build all those out. And actually, I'm in the process of doing a small equity raise to help support my growth in 26 and 27. Uh, so that's a

call out to any any folks who want to support a scrappy media enterprise. That's right. You'll put my email in the show notes, I'm sure. So, yeah, for me, it's just putting myself on a on a a stable trajectory.

And I am I'm heartened by the appetite that I'm seeing amongst professional audiences for adaptation information. Right? A lot of my audience are financial professionals. A lot of them are consultants. you know, I've got the Mckenzies, the KBMGs, the PWC's on my roster, so I know I'm speaking to the right people and people who can afford

to pay for good independent journalism, right? So, I feel like I've got that in place. But yeah, growing growing becoming more stable and yeah, increasing the reach, I suppose, increasing the reach and the relevance of my content to the people who can really make decisions, right? like the this the chief risk officers at

investment houses or the sometimes it's sustainability officer, sometimes it's the chief technology officer at a company who could actually take adaptation action, right? So, actually making sure that my my content, my messages are getting to the right people who can actually take action. That's that's a challenge. And then adaptation in general, yeah, I think we've been

stuck in the last year or so and hopefully we're coming out the other side of it on like definitions and taxonomies of what is and what isn't adaptation and how to adapt different sectors. I think we need to kind of out out of that sort of intellectual sandboxing into like the action world, right? And you are seeing

it. You're seeing a lot of companies who are maybe not saying explicitly that they're adaptation companies, but they're dealing with water risks. They're dealing with wildfire risks. You know, they're doing they're creating solutions to real problems today rather than problems that might happen 10 years from now, which really good, but then we

need to kind of like tell their stories and actually explain how um these companies are part of a broader movement for climate adaptation. So that's what I'd say on the adaptation front side. We need to kind of get out of the the intellectual sandbox and get into the arena.

Well, just like this conversation I think has been for me and will be for a lot of people. I'm curious what inspires you. Oh wow. Well, I on the climate front I I will be honest. Yes, Greta Funberg is a big inspiration and she did kind of light this this fire within me. Um, I am

inspired actually by a number of independent content creators and journalists who have flourished in the in the new media ecosystem, right? And I mentioned to you before we recorded about a community I'm a part of of independent creators doing really cool things in their own niches and some of them have got wild success and are

quoted or or ripped off by the New York Times in the journal and some are just really good in their little niches and just really killing a certain market and it's really inspiring to see other exjournalists and uh some people who've never been into journalism before you know building these companies and I I I

get solace and strength from them uh when I when things are tough in in the in the climate proof world. So I get inspiration from them, get inspiration from Greta Thunberg and yeah, I think, you know, inspiration knowing I'm I'm doing something that I really enjoy and I think is really meaningful and yeah,

being being in control of my own destiny, you know, that's that's inspiring. Nice. Well, if there's anyone else that was inspired uh to follow along with your journey, what's the best way to do so? Well, um I'm always wanting to talk to new folks who are interested in adaptation. So please reach out to me

directly on on LinkedIn or email. Um there are a number of events and online events and communities you can become a part of. Again I I recommend doing your googling doing your searching for for certain communities and I can recommend um the uh climate tech cities uh newsletter. So if they cover a bunch of

cities in the US and in Europe. So if you want to find a list of events to go to, uh I met a lot of people through through their through their newsletter of events. So climate textities, that's a way to to reach out this this community. Um and yeah, I'm trying to think. So what

else? What else? That's the other thing. Maybe I need to create more convenience myself. I've done a few happy hours. Maybe I should do a few more myself. Uh but it's a nent community. We're growing. But yeah, we maybe need to put together a few more new kind of universal meet and greets to get this

movement really really going. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming on and uh and having the conversation about it, answering all the questions about yourself and then also um you know adaptation and the role of language and I'm excited to keep in touch and see where it goes.

Thanks Blake. Really appreciate the conversation. You have a good rest of your day. You too.