Clean Air Innovation with Austin Riesenberger, Founder @ SWERV

Oh, welcome to another episode of The Grove. Shout out to our partners, Crazy Friends for making this happen and Clean Tech Growth Lab. If you want to do anything in clean tech and grow your company, you work with them, but without them, it would not be possible to interview cool people doing cool things

like Austin. Welcome. Thank you, Blake. I'm so excited to be here. Me, too. Austin and I met probably a week ago. uh now I think less than that but at uh Greentown Labs where I see you currently are and uh I was lucky enough to see uh the product hear the story in

person um uh there's there's a lot of really interesting stuff that I'm excited to get into and so uh before we do that if you could give a quick introduction of yourself and what you're building. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I went to school at Colia where I studied mechanical engineering and physics. And I've always

loved like learning how stuff works. Like I would be the one just like taking apart vacuum cleaners as a kid and like taking apart all different things, putting back together to make whatever I was interested in. Um, so that kind of pushed me towards engineering. And I also grew up with like pretty bad asthma

and air quality issues and even like had mold sickness at Colombia. Um, so I went into doing HVAC engineering where I learned all about heat pumps and like big high-end HVAC equipment for large commercial buildings. And I also I learned all about these energy recovery ventilators which bring in fresh air from outside, push out stale air from

inside without wasting the heat that's inside in the winter or without wasting like the AC in the summer. Um, so began realizing like why aren't ERVs, energy recovery ventilators seen in homes where people spend most of their time? And after some research and like looking at products out there, it turns out that

they're they cost thousands of dollars and require a pretty invasive installation. You have to cut big holes through ducts and walls and it just really doesn't make sense for people. But it's really the best solution to improve air quality without wasting energy. Um, like air purifiers, they just filter out big particles. Some can

do some like VOCC's if it's like a really expensive activated carbon filter. But the best way to improve the air quality in your home is to get fresh air from outside, filter it and and bring it in. So, um, yeah, that's essentially what we're working on is taking one of these big ERVs. And I

invented this system that allows it to be a lot smaller and more compact. And there's actually a few of them sitting behind me. Um, just like with a wood panel. So essentially it like these big high-end commercial ERVs that cost like5 to $40,000.

This one is a lot cheaper, easier to install by anyone, and essentially does the same thing, bringing in fresh air without wasting energy, making people uncomfortable. So, so is this is this the is this your first experience with entrepreneurship with starting a company or have you done similar things before?

So, I feel like it always kind of came natural. Like I've always loved making things like I said. So, when I first got a 3D printer, my first, I guess, business, like selling things to people, was I would I made these little custom bottle cap openers and I actually like sold them to my football team um for

just like 3D print filament I needed money for and like beer money. Um so, I'd sell these little $5 um bottle openers to people. But I feel like I've always been actually when I was a little little kid, I would make like origami out of paper and sell that to people on the street. U so I've always been

passionate about like doing my own thing at some point. And I guess I did also start a landscaping business with a buddy in high school. Um, I did a lot of like hard labor jobs in the beginning of high school like landscaping and masonry and mowing lawns and that definitely just um taught me a lot about like

interacting with clients and um kind of taught me what a dollar is worth too when you're working that that hard out in the sun. Well, when well when when when you had these experiences uh you know with bottle cap or landscaping were did did you take those experiences and say you know what this is my career this

is what I want to do I want to do some version of this in the future um or was it or or did you have a vision for yourself that was um I guess more around uh joining a company uh you know you mentioned HVAC something like that.

Yeah, I I think I knew that I've always wanted to start a business, but I did not think it would be right out of school. I thought like I was up until like five days before going all in into this. I was planning on working for another company and like getting some experience working at another startup

doing similar stuff. Um, so it was never really my plan to go all out into this after graduation. I didn't know that was really possible. I kind of doubted myself. Um, but like this essentially started as like a senior design project.

So I thought of it about uh about 14 months ago now from when I first thought like wow homes should have ERVs. They should be in the window and they should be affordable and easy to install and efficient. um to now. And at the very beginning, I was like planning on doing something that I could eventually

commercialize. Um like for senior design, if if you're not familiar, it's like a capstone project that all seniors at Columbia do where they go through the whole process of like figuring out what problems there are in the world and what mechanical solutions they can make to solve it. And then you go through like

six different pitches essentially to your class and do all like prototyping and testing and analysis and finally the end of the the year you have like a a prototype that you could that essentially that kind of works is the goal. Um but in my mind like I've always wanted to start a business. So going

into that I got the two smartest kids that I knew at Colombia. They're both now working at SpaceX actually. And we um I I had this idea and I convinced them to do it with me. They wanted to make like drones, like solar powered drones and like I mean they're interested in just like really cool

stuff like that, stuff that flies around and big things that move. Um but I'm more interested in stuff that's like good for people that um improves people's lives, good for the environment. Um and like consumer products have always interest me. So like going into senior design, I had the plan to like do something that I could

commercialize. Um, so it but I didn't think I would do it right after school. I thought I would work first as like a sales engineer for HVAC uh for like an HVAC uh independent representative that like sells HVAC equipment to HVAC engineers because my background was HVAC engineering. So I figured I would know how to sell

equipment to them. And it's still it's mostly engineering and you learn all about like different uh building equipment. So, I thought like, oh, if I'm learning all the deep details about how all this equipment works and how it fits into buildings, then maybe I'll in figure out something that's new that I could eventually start a company around.

Um, and then I kind of just spent all of my time doing Swerve, like maybe 40 to 60 hour weeks during the school year as I was taking all my classes and working a little bit doing like 3D printing research and um I also worked in the machine shop for two years at Colombia

and then um Oh, so you you had mentioned you said up until 5 days before launch Yeah. Yeah. I can talk more about that. You were you were you were thinking about going in a different direction. So could you focus on what what like for you personally what was the decision about jumping into this

company um versus joining you know accepting a job. Yeah it's an interesting story. So yeah, so I was originally planning on that HVAC like sales engineering role and then as I was working in Swerve so much I um I met this founder from Hawaii that makes they do he's like 21 years old and

they just raised like $13 million make to make uh heat pumps like this new type of heat pump. And when I first like heard of that company I was like wow it sounds really cool. maybe would have some advice for me as I'm doing my own thing. And after just like talking with

him for a little bit, he was very interested in having me work there for them cuz they wanted to add like an ERV to their heat pump. Okay. Um, so then I like interviewed with them and got the role and I was like helping them a little bit out on the side and I was planning on moving to

Hawaii and kind of putting Swerve in my back pocket still like doing it on the side, maybe making prototypes and selling them. Um, but yeah, 5 days before I was planning on flying across the world to go to Hawaii, um, I get a call from the CEO of the company and essentially they didn't realize that

like how far I got at the time with Swerve. They thought it was like a small little hobby. Um, but at that time I had it that was like right after I sold the first unit and or I guess I sold five at at once just on the website and that was it was right after I delivered the first

units. There was one fully functioning in a customer's home and since they had a company that was kind of similar to ours like making HVAC equipment for like residential. Sure. um they kind of gave me the ultimatum that I can like give up swerve and like sign IP over to them or um like or like just keep going on my

own but they I wouldn't be able to work for them anymore and I said like I could not give up um Swerve essentially and um they're like okay but they actually ended up giving me the first like investment essentially They basically just like took the the the like relocation bonus and like first

paycheck and like put it into an investment of Swerve and that's like how we we got our start and um [laughter] yeah. So like with without that happening like I wouldn't have I I probably would have I would have still been in Boston but yeah doing sales HVAC sales engineering and kind of doing this

on the side. So you so so you said there was a period up until uh you were about to sign that that you had successfully um manufactured and sold multiple units. So can you talk about what it was like to develop the first units and sell to the first customers and how you did that?

Yeah, so I kind of started by just like reimagining the ERV for a window. Um, it's like I I basically just like figured out the way to have like the biggest fan and the biggest core because that's all that matters. You need to move air and you need a big high surface area thing to transfer heat moisture

between um air streams. So like basically just figured out a whole new system architecture that packs the biggest fan and biggest core into this tiny little box and nothing else extra. And um I actually found my like I found the first customers on Reddit cuz I I discovered that a ton of people have

been like asking for this on Reddit and like the air quality subreddit um HVAC talk like a few different subreddits. So I began just like saying, "Hey, I'm working on a solution to this. um if you want to talk or like I would I wanted to like interview customers to like figure out exactly what their pain points were

and exactly what product would be best for them. So I set up a bunch of chats with like early initial customers that had like high levels of CO2 in their home and didn't want to open the windows in the winter. um and kind of like going back and forth between looking at um

like prior art like similar devices, prototyping stuff in our lab. Like I since I worked in the machine shop at Columbia and my two other um partners also worked in the machine shop there. We were able to kind of just like take over the whole lab at Columbia. We just had swerve stuff all over. So, we had

this big chamber where we could make it hot, cold, dry, humid and like put a different put a swerve in there and uh put parts of a swerve in there and test the performance of it. Um, so we would buy um parts of like fans and other ERVs on Facebook Marketplace. I would just be

like haggling people, then go pick up um like a fan from Harlem and come uh bring it back to our lab at Colombia, put it in the test rig and like do all these tests, make different prototypes. So, I was able to like run extremely lean and essentially with only like $2,000 total,

we like we obviously weren't paying ourselves, but like 15 or yeah, $2,000 total, we were able to do all this product development, test a ton of things, build up this whole lab, and manufacture five of these units. I actually have um here I'll grab one of the the older versions to show.

Um yeah, this was this is the Swerve V1. Um, so yeah, it's got a little streamer to show the air flow, but yeah, you can turn it on and it it can blow in for like free cooling, it can blow out for rapid exhaust, and then it can blow like back and forth, which is ERV mode, where

it reverses back and forth, pushing and pulling and using that that core to transfer the heat and moisture between streams. Are you supposed to show the uh the Yeah, I guess I can Oh, the the new one. Yeah.

Or Yeah. Yeah. just to stick them in there. You know how Yeah. So that's the that's the older one. And then this one was basically like completely redesigned from scratch and I think it it looks a lot better.

Yeah, I'm really happy with how this turned out. And um yeah, it's actually working pretty well, too. And we just got we're just like shipping in a bunch of components to put in that. Yeah. So then so then let's let's continue going down uh the the path of of sorb. So first focusing on the

product, can you can you again explain what makes it um specifically different or specifically appentatious relative to uh typical household HVAC setups? Yeah. So most homes have no way to actually bring in fresh air. They just have like an AC if you're lucky and then some sort of heating. But there's no way

aside from opening windows or turning on an exhaust fan or kitchen vent to actually bring in fresh air from outside. So like if you have a relatively tight tighter home, which are like um most newer homes or if your home was like retrofitted to have better insulation, it's going to build up a ton

of bad stuff inside. Um so this essentially brings in fresh air from outside. It's ventilation, but it doesn't waste energy. Um, so it like transfers up to 80% of the heat and moisture between the two streams as it's reversing air back and forth. So there are big central systems that you could pay like 5 $10,000 the most to install

like a big central ERV that ties into your duct work. You have to find a contractor that knows how to install them and it's really expensive and difficult and impossible if you rent or live in a dorm or like don't want to damage your place and pay thousands of dollars. Um, and then there's through

wall ERVs where you have to cut like big 7in holes through your wall. And those actually work in a similar way as the swerve where they push and pull through like the enthalpy regenerator core, which is what this thing the core is called. And um, those again are more expensive. They have about a quarter of

the air flow. They are about 25% less efficient. They don't, most of them don't have good filters and you have to pay more money and have someone come to your house, cut big holes to your wall and install them. So, still not able for for renters to do. So, um, the last few

years as more people have like air quality sensors like this, like this one's only like 30 bucks on Amazon and works just as well as like some of the other ones I have, like this is probably the best uh, like CO2 sensor you can get. They are not four. Um, but they're both pretty similar though. The cheap

one is almost as good. But now as more people have sensors like these, they're able to see these air quality issues in their home. Um, specifically the the CO2 and like they need some sort of solution. Well, it see it seems like such a pressing issue. Why why has something like this not happened before? Why has

something like this not been available? Yeah, I think there's a few different reasons. One of them is like people didn't know about it before. like before like you couldn't buy one of these like before the last like 2 years really you couldn't buy a $30 air quality sensor that could accurately tell you CO2

levels inside. Okay. Um so people if you don't really know the problems there you're just going to think oh I'm just getting headaches all the time. I'm just lethargic. I just am tired and uh get sick a lot and um like people just don't really correlate it to their air. Um, but now that people can

measure their air, um, it's like the the market's kind of coming out of nowhere. And then also as homes get tighter, the problem's getting a lot worse, too. Like the the tight homes are great for energy efficiency. Like they don't let the cold air in, but they keep the fresh air out, so you build up all this bad stuff. Um,

and then also, I mean, it's a really it's a pretty difficult machine to to make, too. People have tried making window-mounted ERVs. Um like there's I know Bionire tried making one, but they essentially just took the big central ERVs and then smooshed it down into a little box. It doesn't really work like

that. It kind of needed to be uh rethought of for fitting in the window application cuz like when you do that, you're not like you have just have like a tiny little core and the airflow paths are all messed up. So um you can't really just take a big central unit, squish it down into a box. But then

other companies have tried like enthalpy wheels, but it just means like you need a big like really large like square shaped box where your window has to open a lot and then you lose like uh your windows open a lot. You don't have as well seal like as good insulation sealing around the window and you're

going to have leakage there. Another company um then there's two companies that have just like one person working each of them that have made window ERVs. I've talked with both of them a lot actually. Um, and I've learned a ton from them. One is uh Anthony Douglas from Open ERV and he's made like this

DIY open-source ERV for window mounts that's like a lot of like 3D printed parts um where you just like he has the STLs online that you can download and print yourself and then like the rest of the parts come from like a hardware store. But it's kind of just like this janky um thing. It's not like a polished

product. you have to like um build it yourself or maintain it. I think he does build them and ship them out, but it's just like a big um janky looking uh machine. It does work pretty well though, and I learned he's he's like a a genius on this stuff. So, I I talked

with him a lot. He's been working on like 5 years, but now he's switched more to through wall ERVs and like air purifiers. He's not doing window anymore. And then there's another guy who's done like uh made the purif, which is kind of similar. where it's just like a big um bulky box and it's pretty loud,

but it's pretty it's pretty efficient and works well. So, there are other people that have done it, but no one's really um like made a great product that is affordable, looks good, easy to install, and then also like marketed it correctly. Um like actually got it in front of the right people that need it.

Um so that's what we're trying to do. And also like about like the the actual system like it's just a lot more compact and small using a new type of fan and like airflow reversal mechanism and it's a different type of core that just allows it to be as compact and small as

possible. What what what was the experience just going back to because um you said you had you had sold the first five units and so that was before um you know I you know we could talk about the last 12 months or so of how things have changed how you've grown things like

this but at at the ve at the very beginning when you had those first five units that you know the first version of anything first customers ever what was your experience what was their experience with the product and what was your experience uh you know getting the feedback back and then turning that into

Yeah. product. Yeah. My first customer actually returned returned the Swerve. Um cuz Oh, wow. He was he picked it up um right from my machine shop at Colombia and he was a nice guy and he was measuring the performance of it with air quality sensors and he noticed that the CO2 didn't decrease as

much as he wanted. He wanted to get below like 900 parts per million or something. And before it was like 1,800 parts per million and it was just getting down to like a thousand. Um, but that actually taught us a lot cuz like it showed that we needed more air flow.

Um, so we got a bigger fan, a core with like less of a pressure drop. So now it has a lot more air flow and actually gets CO2 levels like well below a thousand um where people are actually trying to get to. So um yeah, it was tough in the moment cuz like yeah, we

finally have a sale and then um actually I actually want to return it. I don't really want it anymore. [laughter] I was like, "Oh, okay." So, that was it was sad in the moment, but it it definitely taught us just like what we needed to do differently in the next one. And then

with the the the remaining few after that, we haven't had any complaints. And the two other other customers that have it have really liked it. And then since then, we've even boosted the airflow a lot more. Um completely redesigned it actually. Um like it's all different electronics that like could be ULcertified.

Um all the components are made in a way that we could then make like thousands of instead of just being something that's more of like a prototype. So we're kind of just setting up the supply chain in a way that'll just allow us to run once we're once we finalize this design. Well, so then so then how how

have the LA like after the initial development uh I guess around the same time as when you were deciding whether or not to do it and then you received this initial investment and then you decided to um uh yourself I mean I mean like jump into it and start building the company. So what have the last 12 months

been like? Uh what you know how is it different than than when you started? Yeah, I guess we could look at it more like from when I first uh like jumped into it really like Yeah. Uh after like I guess it was around May um or I guess like June 5th when I first

um went fulltime into this and since then like right at the beginning it was definitely very lonely and I had no idea what I was going to do. I was like living at home, living in my car a little bit and just like staying I stayed at my girlfriend's apartment in Boston, well past my

welcome, and she's got like six roommates. And um so I was kind of just like figuring out what to do. And at first I would just start like working on the next design, trying to find people that can help me with this, trying to figure out the right path. And I talked with

like hundreds of people from like customers to CEOs of similar companies and um just like learned as much as I could about starting my own company and like what the best path is. Um so have been trying to like raise money through angel investors and I actually hired our first like employee who you met Andy.

He's sitting here next to us working away. He's the best. and like since he joined um it's it kind of just like I can see the future of like how we're actually going to do this. Um but yeah, at first it was definitely really lonely just spending all my time kind of alone working on this trying to

figure out what to do and it was really confusing. I would kind of just like wake up in the morning like I have no idea what [laughter] how I'm going to do this and slowly just like start cranking out things trying to figure it out. And by night I would like get myself in a

place where I like thought it was going to work out and I would kind of then wake up the next morning and like [laughter] be like, "Oh what am I going to do?" I guess like over time, how did you like what told you to kept to to to keep building, you know, and and and not

stop? Yeah, I think I've always been like very determined. Um like I played football most of my life and like I I would always be like the one that's like working the hardest in the weight room and um trying to get as good as I could be, but then I would keep getting

injured like pretty much every year I would have like a horrific injury, but I would keep going. Um so that kind of taught me like some determination. Maybe I was always just had that. Um but I think talking to customers and just hearing how big of a problem that they're having and how there's no solution and how like

this idea seems like it should be the best solution for them. Um, and also with me personally having these issues with asthma and allergies and mold sickness and like I I want this product myself and like it should exist. There's no like the laws of physics aren't telling us it it it can exist. So someone someone should

bring it to market and make it a real thing for people to buy. So um I think like having a lot of people that are interested in buying one definitely um helps support that even if you don't know the right path to take at the time.

So, so where you so what what was what was the um particular milestones that you hit that that told you that you know you were making actual progress instead of and and that this was worth pursuing instead of not.

Yeah. Um I think the first I I guess there's there's been a lot of milestones down the way like along the way. The first was when we were first able to actually reverse air flow back and forth because like the system wasn't invented yet. I was just like, well, there's this big fan. Maybe it can

reverse air flow back and forth cuz like you want it to reverse quickly and quietly and like in a big like uniform stream to go right in cores and filters. So, I kind of just made a big test rig and would try out all the different shapes and I spent weeks just trying to

like invent some way for the air flow to reverse. So then finally I've figured it out with just like one small moving part you can completely flip the flow back and forth really quickly. Um so that was one big milestone and then another one was actually making the first um well we made a few different first prototypes.

The very first one was like taking an off-the-shelf fan and just strapping a core to it and [laughter] testing how that works. But then the next one was like designing our whole fully packaged unit as one thing um and just like testing that and actually measuring the efficiency to be like 80% with um our

in-house testing system. So being like, "Wow, this actually could work better than other ERVs." Because like going into it, I just had like a hinkering that this is a good thing that should work. And like the physics was telling me it should be good, but I didn't really know how each piece would come

together and actually work. But then um yeah, getting that the first sale and then the first customer that actually wanted to keep the thing and and enjoyed it and liked it. Um, and then, um, I guess, yeah, getting that first investment was definitely the thing that just was like, oh, I'll take this as a

sign to just put everything I have into this. And then I guess just like every day I feel like there's small little victories sometimes like you feel like you go backwards but um then like having more investors being interested in putting money and just like talking to more people that believed in me and figuring out um

different like distribution channels. And I think like every every time someone joins like the applies to beta test one of these, I like read their little response and reach out to them and um it's it's always like a a good little reminder.

Well Well, yeah. I mean, you you were just speaking to this the sense of ambiguity at least for you know a number of of months in the last 12 months. I would assume like the first three or six or whatever it was. And so I was just curious if like anything in that time period was was specifically

like you know yes you should keep going and because you know you'd wake up in the morning you'd work on things throughout the day and you'd be like well I think I did things you know like I think I pushed this forward but I'm not sure. And so, uh, I guess like you're speaking to, you know, like the

the more days that you strung together where you were just waking up and accomplishing things, eventually you, uh, raised more money, I guess. And, you know, obviously got a place in Greentown Labs and an employee and things like this, but, uh, you know, um, I mean, is that like how, like, looking back on the

ambiguity, is that how you, uh, got through it? Yeah. Yeah. I think just trying not to get overwhelmed with all the things that need to be done to get to where we want to be and kind of just like checking off the next immediate thing is really important. Um, but I I don't think there was any big

moment that completely changed stuff. It's more just like going every day and then after like a couple months you look back and you're like, "Wow, so much has has changed." Um, but yeah, I mean, I'm still trying to to to figure it out. there's still lots of things we have to do and lots of work

that needs to be done to to get this out there and to make this an actual a successful company. Um, but it's kind of just it's it's less like big steps and it's more just like slowly fading into it. Like you kind of just like beginning you just like fake it and like you just

like convince yourself that it's a real company and then you kind of just like eventually slowly fade into actually being a real company. [laughter] Well, okay. So, so a a couple uh some some last questions for you. Uh some of my favorites. So, you're So, you're at this point right now today. Um where

where are you going? Like, what what is it that you guys are working on today? And where are you going? Yeah. So, we're trying to get this next swerve out there as fast as possible to get it into the hands of early beta testers. And we're manufacturing these ourselves, like shipping in components

from all over the world, doing quality control and like packaging these up. So, right now, like I've been redesigning all these parts, like I've just a bunch of 3D printed parts all over my desk. I'm just like [laughter] making small changes to and like prototyping little parts and um trying to get this thing to actually work. And

we're we're we get closer every day. Um, so yeah, it's we're mostly focused on like product development and yeah, really just trying to to get this thing out there as soon as we can. What would you say is the biggest hurdle that you're navigating at the moment?

And how is it also an opportunity? Yeah, I would say just having low cash on hand, like being constrained by money, but I I also think that can be a good thing because it forces you to be like creative in how you're spending that money and um like it you don't waste money on

things you don't need. You also don't get super diluted and lose huge amounts of your company and you're like more thoughtful about everything. Um, but it is a challenge to like not be profitable yet and not have like millions of dollars of investment to put into this.

Um, so it's kind of it's definitely a challenge, but um, it's it's an exciting challenge though. Hopefully we can get these out there and actually start making a profit soon so we don't have to worry as much about that or at least just have u more investments coming in where we don't have to think about it as

much. Well, so in the face of all of uh these challenges that are simultaneously opportunities that you're going about every day, um I I think the story is awesome. Like where you guys are at is really is really cool. It's really hyping me up. I'm curious what inspires you though.

Yeah. I guess I guess if you want to get deep the [laughter] what really inspires me is like you only have one life pretty much and I don't want to waste it doing something that I'm not like super proud of. I don't want to be like 90 years old looking back and um thinking like how I

could have started this cool company or like I I should have done this. It's like I want to look back and be like, "Wow, I gave that my all and it look at look at what I made." Um, so I think that that is what motivates me the most.

Just like not wanting to waste my life and wanting to spend it doing something that is really important to me and to other people and for the world and like makes people like improves people's lives, improves their health and and well-being. Um, yeah.

Well said. [laughter] Well done. So, if if uh if there's anyone else that's listening that um is inspired to follow along with your journey or Swear Bear's journey, what's the best way to do that? Yeah, if you can follow us on either Instagram or LinkedIn or go to our website at swearv.com and if you apply to beta test there,

then you'll get like emails with updates and everything. Um, but yeah, I I'll probably be posting a lot more on LinkedIn and Instagram as we get closer to having units out there. So, cool. Exciting. Go do it. Go [laughter] beta test one of these. Why not?

Beta test. Oh, how could you know? Yeah. Look how nice. Look how pretty it is. Look how nice it is. Don't you want that in your house? I do. It looks like it smells good. Let alone gives me fresh air. So, [laughter] Austin, thank you so much. I'm really excited to see uh where you guys go in

the next few months. Um uh so we'll stay in touch about that. But, you know, thank you for what you're building. It is super cool. It will have an awesome impact on a lot of people's lives. And uh thank you for your time.

Well, thanks a lot, Blake. Really appreciate you having me. This was a lot of fun. Thanks,